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Thread: Australian Politics - A Dialogue

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    Senior Member Euro-Chess's Avatar
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    Default Australian Politics - A Dialogue

    After 11 years in power John Howard experienced humiliating defeat by losing his electoral seat and being expelled from Australian politics forever.

    His arrogant and discriminatory policy towards Australians of non-Anglo origin created unnecessary divisions in Australian society. Still, Australians showed maturity by saying NO to his blind out of date pro-American, pro-British policy that left Australia with the reputation of an American and British Puppet without dignity.

    During his leadership he encouraged Anglo-Saxon militant nationalism by virtually abolishing the multicultural policy of the previous Keating government even though today more then 50% of Australian population comes from non Anglo-Saxon origin.

    In order to preserve British colonial status of Australia he cheated and misled the Australian public during the last referendum forcing people only to face a dilemma between the British monarch and a Republic.

    He did his best to present himself as an Australian patriot but was in fact a hard line colonial British Anglo nationalist. He lied by giving unfulfilled promises about GST, interest rates and so on. He was trying to preserve privilege status of white Anglo protestant rich elite by giving more funds to elite private schools than to public schools.

    After such disasters change came with the election of Kevin Rudd, a man with more human face who was elected by majority of people as a new leader of the country. Unlike Howard, Kevin Rudd presented himself as an educated intellectual, intelligent, qualified and tolerant leader with moral integrity, who fully understands Australian present reality.

    Kevin Rudd did not get “Job for the boys” in Australian politics like Alexander Downer or Kim Beazley who inherited seats in the parliament from their fathers. He speaks several foreign languages including fluent Mandarin

    Rudd's first words after the election were:

    "I want to be prime minister for all Australians”.

    Then he immediately involved Australia in the Kyoto protocol which aims to solve the problem of global warming. He's has indirectly told the Americans he does not want his country to be anyone’s puppet. The Japanese have been firmly told not to hunt whales in Australian waters.

    His strong ties with China will reinforce Australian economic growth and avoid market crisis like the one happening in USA. After so many years of destructive divisive Howard government policy, Kevin Rudd has very difficult job in front of him to bring back unity, dignity and social stability to Australia, but he seems to be travelling down that very path.
    “When you see a good move, look for a better one” - Emanuel Lasker

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    ^
    You certainly have a nice way with words Euro-chess.

    The brighter prospects for our foreign relationships has appeared as a plus post the election perhaps?



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    Senior Member YumYum's Avatar
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    Default Multicultural

    Quote Originally Posted by Euro-Chess View Post
    During his leadership he encouraged Anglo-Saxon militant nationalism by virtually abolishing the multicultural policy of the previous Keating government even though today more then 50% of Australian population comes from non Anglo-Saxon origin.
    My mother is from the Philippines and my father is of British heritage. To be fair and truthful I don't think the Howard government in any significant way altered the national multicultural policy which started long before the Keating government came to power. It probably started under Malcolm Fraser, so your analogy is a bit unfair.
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    Senior Member Spiny Norman's Avatar
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    You're welcome to your opinions Euro ... but its a very one-sided, glass-half-empty view of the Howard years ...
    WARNING: I have a simplistic, defunct, concept of objective morality!

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    Tin Cup Champ 2004 Just2Good's Avatar
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    Default Non-Partisan Balance

    Quote Originally Posted by Euro-Chess View Post
    After 11 years in power John Howard experienced humiliating defeat by losing his electoral seat and being expelled from Australian politics forever.
    Probably, but you never know, he might be back. He was in good shape physically, and the NSW opposition could definitely use him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Euro-Chess View Post
    His arrogant and discriminatory policy towards Australians of non-Anglo origin created unnecessary divisions in Australian society.
    What policy in particular are you referring to? If you are referring to mandatory detention for unlawful aliens, I have been told that the previous Labour governments brought that in, not the Howard government. Also, the Howard government moved to remove children from the mandatory detention policy. Its not my intention in this thread to be an advocate of the Coalition, I have no political party membership affiliations nor do I want any. I am just trying to be impartial.
    Quote Originally Posted by Euro-Chess View Post
    Still, Australians showed maturity by saying NO to his blind out of date pro-American, pro-British policy that left Australia with the reputation of an American and British Puppet without dignity.
    Didn't PM Rudd just go to the USA to boost and strengthen Australia's relationship with the USA? After the goodwill Howard purchased from the US by tagging along for the Iraq invasion, PM Rudd would be foolish to unnecessarily burn bridges there. He has more political savvy than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Euro-Chess View Post
    During his leadership he encouraged Anglo-Saxon militant nationalism by virtually abolishing the multicultural policy of the previous Keating government even though today more then 50% of Australian population comes from non Anglo-Saxon origin.
    I must respectfully disagree. Forcing new citizens to have a sufficient command of the English language is not, in my humble opinion, unreasonable or in any way biased against non Anglosaxons. Singaporeans for instance can stroll through that requirement, as can most Indians/Pakistani's or West Indians.
    Quote Originally Posted by Euro-Chess View Post
    In order to preserve British colonial status of Australia he cheated and misled the Australian public during the last referendum forcing people only to face a dilemma between the British monarch and a Republic.
    I came to Aus in 2000, not 1999, so I cannot comment here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Euro-Chess View Post
    He lied by giving unfulfilled promises about GST, interest rates and so on.
    Lies are okay if you get re-elected as he did several times after the broken GST promise.
    Quote Originally Posted by Euro-Chess View Post
    He was trying to preserve privilege status of white Anglo protestant rich elite by giving more funds to elite private schools than to public schools.
    Well, if private schools aren't properly funded, wouldn't that place a bigger burden on public schools?
    Quote Originally Posted by Euro-Chess View Post
    After such disasters change came with the election of Kevin Rudd, a man with more human face who was elected by majority of people as a new leader of the country.
    Yes, and he cleaned up handsomely. I wouldn't have thought that one year as leader of the opposition was enough to become Prime Minister. In Canada most of the opposition leaders who have gone on to become Prime Minister served as Leader of the Opposition for at least three years.
    Quote Originally Posted by Euro-Chess View Post
    Unlike Howard, Kevin Rudd presented himself as an educated intellectual, intelligent, qualified and tolerant leader with moral integrity, who fully understands Australian present reality.
    Maybe. Howard was sharp and intelligent though. But his government was no longer listening to the people and therefore got tossed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Euro-Chess View Post
    Kevin Rudd did not get “Job for the boys” in Australian politics like Alexander Downer or Kim Beazley who inherited seats in the parliament from their fathers.
    I may be wrong but I think he lost his first run at the riding he now holds.
    Quote Originally Posted by Euro-Chess View Post
    He speaks several foreign languages including fluent Mandarin
    Yes, I think its great that more and more non-Chinese Australians are trying to learn such a difficult language as Chinese.
    Quote Originally Posted by Euro-Chess View Post
    He's has indirectly told the Americans he does not want his country to be anyone’s puppet. The Japanese have been firmly told not to hunt whales in Australian waters.
    When did he do either of these things?
    Quote Originally Posted by Euro-Chess View Post
    His strong ties with China will reinforce Australian economic growth and avoid market crisis like the one happening in USA.
    Australia is a natural resource based economy. As long as we have something to sell, and there are buyers for our reseources, the economy should remain relatively healthy. China and the USA don't influence that as much as many pundits and economists believe.
    Quote Originally Posted by Euro-Chess View Post
    After so many years of destructive divisive Howard government policy, Kevin Rudd has very difficult job in front of him to bring back unity, dignity and social stability to Australia, but he seems to be travelling down that very path.
    Indeed, it will be interesting to measure his results after his first term.
    .
    "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing."

    ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

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    Senior Member Euro-Chess's Avatar
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    This is meant to be an original and serious article that intends to deal with the essence but not with the cosmetic superfluous issues. During eleven years of Howard's leadership he encouraged Anglo-Saxon militant nationalism by virtually abolishing the multicultural policy introduced by previous governments before him. To justify his military occupation of Aboriginal land he accused the Australian Aboriginal adult population of sexual crimes and used this to justify an interventionist strategy.

    He was trying by all means to preserve privilege status of white Anglo protestant rich elite by giving more funds to elite private schools (reducing funds to Universities) than to public schools!
    “When you see a good move, look for a better one” - Emanuel Lasker

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    Tin Cup Champ 2004 Just2Good's Avatar
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    Cool Older Perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by Euro-Chess View Post
    After 11 years in power John Howard experienced humiliating defeat by losing his electoral seat and being expelled from Australian politics forever.

    His arrogant and discriminatory policy towards Australians of non-Anglo origin created unnecessary divisions in Australian society. Still, Australians showed maturity by saying NO to his blind out of date pro-American, pro-British policy that left Australia with the reputation of an American and British Puppet without dignity.

    During his leadership he encouraged Anglo-Saxon militant nationalism by virtually abolishing the multicultural policy of the previous Keating government even though today more then 50% of Australian population comes from non Anglo-Saxon origin.

    In order to preserve British colonial status of Australia he cheated and misled the Australian public during the last referendum forcing people only to face a dilemma between the British monarch and a Republic.

    He did his best to present himself as an Australian patriot but was in fact a hard line colonial British Anglo nationalist. He lied by giving unfulfilled promises about GST, interest rates and so on. He was trying to preserve privilege status of white Anglo protestant rich elite by giving more funds to elite private schools than to public schools.

    After such disasters change came with the election of Kevin Rudd, a man with more human face who was elected by majority of people as a new leader of the country. Unlike Howard, Kevin Rudd presented himself as an educated intellectual, intelligent, qualified and tolerant leader with moral integrity, who fully understands Australian present reality.

    Kevin Rudd did not get “Job for the boys” in Australian politics like Alexander Downer or Kim Beazley who inherited seats in the parliament from their fathers. He speaks several foreign languages including fluent Mandarin

    Rudd's first words after the election were:

    "I want to be prime minister for all Australians”.

    Then he immediately involved Australia in the Kyoto protocol which aims to solve the problem of global warming. He's has indirectly told the Americans he does not want his country to be anyone’s puppet. The Japanese have been firmly told not to hunt whales in Australian waters.

    His strong ties with China will reinforce Australian economic growth and avoid market crisis like the one happening in USA. After so many years of destructive divisive Howard government policy, Kevin Rudd has very difficult job in front of him to bring back unity, dignity and social stability to Australia, but he seems to be travelling down that very path.
    With Morrison's recent win, the above post seems quaint. I have long held the belief that it doesn't really matter who wins the election between the Blue team and the Red team. But the perception is that it matters. Also, I think Labour would have been better served by keeping Shorten. He didn't lose for any other reason than slumping property prices, and the belief of the average Australian that the Coalition would be better at stemming the losses, and hopefully moving property prices back to gaining value.

    Its similar to the reason John Howard did so well in 2004. Australian's were concerned about interest rates going up under Latham, and their mortgages becoming unaffordable. Hence, they played the safer bet - just like they did on Saturday.
    .
    "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing."

    ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

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    Tin Cup Champ 2004 Just2Good's Avatar
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    Default Wilkie's Continued Success

    -
    I think its also amazing how Andrew Wilkie cruised to victory, with about a 8,000 vote lead over both major party candidates (combined)! It wouldn't surprise me if that would perhaps be the biggest margin by an independent MP ever, in the history of Australian federal politics.

    For the record, I've always been fond of Andrew. He's one of the few politicians most people would describe as honest and a person of integrity.
    .
    "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing."

    ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

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    Senior Member Firegoat7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just2Good View Post
    -
    I think its also amazing how Andrew Wilkie cruised to victory, with about a 8,000 vote lead over both major party candidates (combined)! It wouldn't surprise me if that would perhaps be the biggest margin by an independent MP ever, in the history of Australian federal politics.

    For the record, I've always been fond of Andrew. He's one of the few politicians most people would describe as honest and a person of integrity.
    I can't stand this type of political thought. I couldn't care less about his personal morality. The only thing that really matters is an achievable plan to improve the lives for current and future generations.
    AC: 20-6-20-> ...I did tell them how chess improves people in many aspects. I had better start buying their paper.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Just2Good View Post
    -
    [FONT=Georgia]I think its also amazing how Andrew Wilkie cruised to victory, with about a 8,000 vote lead over both major party candidates (combined)! It wouldn't surprise me if that would perhaps be the biggest margin by an independent MP ever, in the history of Australian federal politics.
    It's highly impressive but it is nowhere near the biggest (I happened to be checking this a few hours ago). For instance Tony Windsor in New England in 2010 got nearly 62% primary and got 26,010 more than both major parties combined.
    Note: I have poster antichrist on ignore. On no account should anyone assume that I agree with, or am unable to refute, any comment by poster antichrist, simply because I have not responded to it. Chances are I have not even seen it. I am also sometimes denied the ability of reply to false accusations in the shoutbox.

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    Tin Cup Champ 2004 Just2Good's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HydraTED View Post
    It's highly impressive but it is nowhere near the biggest (I happened to be checking this a few hours ago). For instance Tony Windsor in New England in 2010 got nearly 62% primary and got 26,010 more than both major parties combined.
    Tony Windsor was a fine gentleman who made politicians, and everyone around him, better individuals. Its a shame he retired but time marches on, and he probably had his fill after two decades in politics.

    Are you by any chance in Wilkie's electorate Kevin?
    .
    "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing."

    ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

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    Quote Originally Posted by Euro-Chess View Post
    After 11 years in power John Howard experienced humiliating defeat by losing his electoral seat and being expelled from Australian politics forever.

    His arrogant and discriminatory policy towards Australians of non-Anglo origin created unnecessary divisions in Australian society. Still, Australians showed maturity by saying NO to his blind out of date pro-American, pro-British policy that left Australia with the reputation of an American and British Puppet without dignity.

    During his leadership he encouraged Anglo-Saxon militant nationalism by virtually abolishing the multicultural policy of the previous Keating government even though today more then 50% of Australian population comes from non Anglo-Saxon origin.

    In order to preserve British colonial status of Australia he cheated and misled the Australian public during the last referendum forcing people only to face a dilemma between the British monarch and a Republic.

    He did his best to present himself as an Australian patriot but was in fact a hard line colonial British Anglo nationalist. He lied by giving unfulfilled promises about GST, interest rates and so on. He was trying to preserve privilege status of white Anglo protestant rich elite by giving more funds to elite private schools than to public schools.

    After such disasters change came with the election of Kevin Rudd, a man with more human face who was elected by majority of people as a new leader of the country. Unlike Howard, Kevin Rudd presented himself as an educated intellectual, intelligent, qualified and tolerant leader with moral integrity, who fully understands Australian present reality.

    Kevin Rudd did not get “Job for the boys” in Australian politics like Alexander Downer or Kim Beazley who inherited seats in the parliament from their fathers. He speaks several foreign languages including fluent Mandarin

    Rudd's first words after the election were:

    "I want to be prime minister for all Australians”.

    Then he immediately involved Australia in the Kyoto protocol which aims to solve the problem of global warming. He's has indirectly told the Americans he does not want his country to be anyone’s puppet. The Japanese have been firmly told not to hunt whales in Australian waters.

    His strong ties with China will reinforce Australian economic growth and avoid market crisis like the one happening in USA. After so many years of destructive divisive Howard government policy, Kevin Rudd has very difficult job in front of him to bring back unity, dignity and social stability to Australia, but he seems to be travelling down that very path.
    Hahaha. They're all failures in the end, not managing to change the country for the better at all. Any good idea they have gets overturned by the next govt anyway.

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    Senior Member Firegoat7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karniforny
    ...Hahaha. They're all failures in the end, not managing to change the country for the better at all. Any good idea they have gets overturned by the next govt anyway.
    You took our Birth
    They ruined our education
    We walk Every street
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    Who builds this equation
    Is this my contract
    This theft never dies
    State Your Business
    AC: 20-6-20-> ...I did tell them how chess improves people in many aspects. I had better start buying their paper.



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    Senior Member Firegoat7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AC on Chesschat
    My decades campaigning for green issues was not so hopeless after all and Qld of all places.
    Whilst it is very admirable that you campaigned for green issues for many years, lets not delude ourselves into thinking that voting makes a difference. The Greens represent 8-10% of the National vote and hold how many seats nationally?, hardly proportional.

    Furthermore, and more importantly,historically all these green seats are in big urban areas centralised around capital cities. I mean for fucks sake these people argue for electric motor vehicles and recycling when most people live in flats and apartments without a plot of soil to grow vegetables. Basically its just transference, these urban masses have no real connection with nature except when they temporarily get away from it (ie holidays) and they then realise what human beings have lost, for their lives to have meaning. They dream of urban spaces being connected with nature and yet are totally dependent on the destructive expansion of environment for individual opportunity.

    Trusting government is simply naive, as you are well aware, historically, in regards social issues, because eventually all governments leave office for another self interested group of people. It is only when people within the green movement take control of financial systems in regional areas through workable decentralised economical models that any lasting change for the better will take affect. Otherwise its just all smoke and mirrors designed as a delaying tactic ie National representative politics.Inefficient political leadership!

    AC: 20-6-20-> ...I did tell them how chess improves people in many aspects. I had better start buying their paper.



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    Senior Member Firegoat7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Baron on Chesschat
    ...Nobody forces the companies to pay that much to CEO's. They are welcome to find someone cheaper. So underpaying is a problem....but why is it a problem when people get paid well? What if this is what they are worth? Once again, we are counting money in other people's pockets - the money that they earn!
    Beyond belief. You have to question if Michael has ever really thought about his own political economic assumptions. 1) All public listed company/corporations are required by law to have a board. The people who appoint the boards are the same people who own the majority of the public shares. Therefore the price is forced by the same people who own the majority of the company ie vested interest.

    The main problems are 1/over payment for work done and 2/ multiple board representation. The value of remuneration is completely relative of course, but it is clear that in economic theory most corporate pay checks are derived from authoritarian socialism and are not capitalist in nature. Always remember leaders of a corporation are appointed politically with approval from major shareholders. The price is determined by consensus from committee, not a free market. The relative economic worth of an individual ought to be relation to the benefits of humankind, not the market because real price discovery is not possible in an economic system where the money supply is derived from debt.
    Once you observe that debt creates money and not work, then it should be obvious that those that help themselves first to the economic benefits of usury are the rulers and everyone else is a bonded serf.

    Some of these so called corporate leaders sit on multiple boards and do 3-4 meetings a year. It would be offensive to suggest that they are doing creative work, when the most successful seem to destroy corporate wealth for vested self interest. Take a good look at the books of companies like IBM,General Electric, Apple. Amazon or Microsoft.
    Debt ridden and tightly controlled by a corrupt elite who prefer destroying capitalism for authoritarian corporate socialism.
    AC: 20-6-20-> ...I did tell them how chess improves people in many aspects. I had better start buying their paper.



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