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Thread: Chess.Com is a scam

  1. | #1
    Senior Member Firegoat7's Avatar
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    Default Chess.Com is a scam

    Please,


    Let's not beat around the bush on the matter. The site is a complete con job on the chess playing public. It is incredible that no strong players speak up about this misleading site that pretends to be real.

    Consider this.....

    1- In the last 3 years I have banned thousands of players and have still not run out of "human" opponents.
    2- I have a 95+% losing record against all American players on the site regardless of playing strength.
    3- In Over 60% of my games I lose by over a minute in a 3 minute game on time despite playing most moves in under a second.
    4- NM one of the weakest titles in World chess are regularly over 2300 when on ICC these players are crushed.
    5- I am yet to see anybody in 1000s of games fall for an opening trap.

    The site is a joke.
    Chess players should call out this joke of a site for what it is...a complete an utter scam.
    Ozchess died on the 7/4/2013- killed by Gatekeepers



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    Tin Cup Champ 2004 Just2Good's Avatar
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    I have heard a lot of people cheat with Fritz-like computers on this site, but never having played there myself, I cannot say whether or not that is accurate.
    .
    "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing."

    ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

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    Is it a scam? Or is it just a site where you think there are people setting up a bot to run alongside?

    That would suggest that the site owners are running bots at different levels across the board without peoples knowledge.
    Whilst possible, I am not sure why they would bother there seems to be enough traffic on there.

    The payment part of the site is (from my view) for for access to innumerable tactics and the like, which I know I am happy to pay for.

    I think there are going to be internet cheats on any site, but I don't usually really care at all about that, if I come across one I come across one.
    Anyway each to their own, but I find it a 'fun' site to go and do tactics and sometimes play some games

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    Senior Member Firegoat7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notachessplayer View Post
    Is it a scam?
    Yes! Chess.com is a scam.

    Quote Originally Posted by notachessplayer View Post
    Or is it just a site where you think there are people setting up a bot to run alongside?
    No It is a scam. It is not real chess. It is most probably an artificial intelligence collection service designed to meet consumer demands.

    Quote Originally Posted by notachessplayer View Post
    That would suggest that the site owners are running bots at different levels across the board without peoples knowledge.
    This is your argument and I guess its plausible.
    Quote Originally Posted by notachessplayer View Post
    Whilst possible, I am not sure why they would bother there seems to be enough traffic on there.
    I banned every player and didnt run out of opponents. Try it yourself! There are after all a limited number of players that a site can carry. Furthermore, live players of certain rating strengths have consistent weakness. This doesn't appear to
    be the case at Chess.com
    Quote Originally Posted by notachessplayer View Post
    The payment part of the site is (from my view) for for access to innumerable tactics and the like, which I know I am happy to pay for.
    Chesstempo is better value
    Quote Originally Posted by notachessplayer View Post
    I think there are going to be internet cheats on any site, but I don't usually really care at all about that, if I come across one I come across one.
    Anyway each to their own, but I find it a 'fun' site to go and do tactics and sometimes play some games
    Dude I am not talking about random cheating. I am saying Chess.com is a scam. It is pretending to be something that it has no right to claim to be.
    Strong players should educate the chess playing public about this hoax.
    Ozchess died on the 7/4/2013- killed by Gatekeepers



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    Okay it is too messy for me to reply to each individual quote.

    But, I will state I don't know for sure whether or not chess.com has a lot of bots running.
    But I will address a few points.
    When you ban a player, are you suggesting you actually ban them from the site? I think you could only put in a complaint about a player at which time there games would be analyzed to determine if it is likely they are cheating. For players at below say 1600 level, that should be reasonable easy to determine.
    Outside that, I would think the best you can do is 'ignore' a player so they can't accept your requests.

    Just for the purposes of the discussion I had a look at your account on chess.com (I am guessing that firegoat7 from Australia is the same)
    There are 4,261,270 people currently with "blitz" ratings. How many of those 4,000,000 would you suggest you have likely played and banned?
    I could be wrong, but it seems as though one of your arguments is that you keep banning people, but don't run out of opponents.
    Of those 4,261,270 players there are 114,419 between your current blitz rating and 121 lower rating points.
    Even if you only played any player once in your 9618 blitz game and you had only played players in that small 121 point rating range, you would have played still less than 8.5% of players in that 121 rating point band.

    There are 1548 players on the Australian Master list in that exact same band range, so it doesn't seem unfeasible that such a huge chess site would have 73x more players in the same banding. In fact that would mean the numbers on Chess.com would seem to be small by comparison I would have thought.

    There is another problem with claiming that the site is actually cheating and full of bots and that is one computational power. Of those 4,261,270 that have blitz ratings, you have to concede that at least a portion of the players are 'real' 10%? 20%?
    I ask because let's imagine it is 50% real and 50% computers run by the site? The amount of money required to keep a server farm running with that much computational power, than many cpu etc would mean that it is difficult to see how the site could be profitable. So let's say it is not actually profitable, then what is the actual purpose of the scam?

    I don't have a doubt that there are internet cheats, but that isn't really the argument the argument is that you don't play real people there, it is fake chess "I am not sure what fake chess really is, but I don't want to digress to far" and a scam, so for the intents and purposes of that point of view, the 'cheats' are not relevant.

    I can't prove or disprove what you are alleging, but in my mind there is a legitimate degree of doubt that the site doesn't provide a real chess service to allow players to play online against other players.

    I do like the tactics on chess.com, but will check out chesstempo as well, thanks for the suggestion

  6. | #6
    Senior Member Firegoat7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notachessplayer View Post
    When you ban a player, are you suggesting you actually ban them from the site? I think you could only put in a complaint about a player at which time there games would be analyzed to determine if it is likely they are cheating. For players at below say 1600 level, that should be reasonable easy to determine.
    Outside that, I would think the best you can do is 'ignore' a player so they can't accept your requests.
    On Chess.com you can block players so that you never have to play them again. I have basically been blocking every player after 1 game as an experiment to draw some conclusions about the 3 0 playing pool.

    Quote Originally Posted by notachessplayer View Post
    Just for the purposes of the discussion I had a look at your account on chess.com (I am guessing that firegoat7 from Australia is the same)
    There are 4,261,270 people currently with "blitz" ratings. How many of those 4,000,000 would you suggest you have likely played and banned?
    If you want to start statistical arguments then let us agree on an accurate source. Point 1) I basically only play in the 3 0 pool. How many players does Chess,com have in their 3 0 pool database?
    Point 2) In Australia there are at a guess about 10,000 registered players of which less then 10% would be above 1800. What would be the number spreads for the 3 0 chess,com rating pool and how many of these play regular sessions?

    Quote Originally Posted by notachessplayer View Post
    Of those 4,261,270 players
    I simply don't believe the chess.com membership is that big. If it was wouldn't the site be doing very well financially if it only charged $2 for a yearly membership? You could argue that non membership is in the sites better interest because they make money from advertising, but this would mean that botnets would be in chess.coms self interest (regardless of who operated them)

    Quote Originally Posted by notachessplayer View Post
    There are 1548 players on the Australian Master list in that exact same band range, so it doesn't seem unfeasible that such a huge chess site would have 73x more players in the same banding. In fact that would mean the numbers on Chess.com would seem to be small by comparison I would have thought.
    At the moment, quoting these statistics are meaningless as they are to broad to define the problem. You really only need to know. 1) The size of the chess.com 3 0 playing pool. 2) Their rating volume percentage comparisons and 3) Frequency of play per player session.

    Quote Originally Posted by notachessplayer View Post
    I ask because let's imagine it is 50% real and 50% computers run by the site? The amount of money required to keep a server farm running with that much computational power, than many cpu etc would mean that it is difficult to see how the site could be profitable. So let's say it is not actually profitable, then what is the actual purpose of the scam?
    I doubt very much that 50% of the playing pool are human. I would suggest that most of the time the "real" players are playing an AI system. I don't believe it would be that difficult to measure for a technically competent computer expert, there is after all a limit on how many people can log into the server at the same time without lagging it out.

    Quote Originally Posted by notachessplayer View Post
    I can't prove or disprove what you are alleging, but in my mind there is a legitimate degree of doubt that the site doesn't provide a real chess service to allow players to play online against other players.
    I don't believe it is very difficult to prove at all. As an example, If 100 random Australian players in the 3 0 pool were asked if they recognised the real name of their chess playing Australian opponents on chess.com most of them would say Yes/No at reasonably consistent levels . It would be quite clear very quickly who was real and who was fake. As Lasker wisely said "...their are no unknown genius' in the game of chess."
    Ozchess died on the 7/4/2013- killed by Gatekeepers



  7. | #7
    Senior Member Firegoat7's Avatar
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    The latest theory on this complete joke of a site is that hackers use a hooking technique to lag out your browser.
    They then start a bot on a time delay that rigs the game.
    Take notice when you lag on this joke of a site.
    Pay particular attention to how many games you lose in a row on long sessions.
    Never pay to play on this rigged site.
    Ozchess died on the 7/4/2013- killed by Gatekeepers



  8. | #8
    Senior Member Firegoat7's Avatar
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    Like him or hate him Elon Musk provides some interesting thought in this video.



    Anyway back to chess.com

    Chess.com is basically an experiment in Artificial Intelligence.
    If sites like Chess.com were honest they would allow everybody access to all database games on the site.
    The statistical probability of the hoax that is being perpetuated on the chess playing public would be exposed immediately if such information was available.
    Psychologically it is immoral for a chess site not to provide its playing base with transparent security over the integrity of public chess games.
    We deserve to be treated much better then what is currently the status quo.

    Anyway back to the Elon Musk video. Would having Chessbase and Alpha zero implanted into your brain make chess better or boring?
    Ozchess died on the 7/4/2013- killed by Gatekeepers



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    Senior Member Firegoat7's Avatar
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    Chess.com is simply the worst.

    If you are an Australian chess player don't play there. Play anywhere else but not on Chess.com.
    Ozchess died on the 7/4/2013- killed by Gatekeepers



  10. | #10
    Senior Member Firegoat7's Avatar
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    Just when you think it cannot get any worse, it reaches new levels of corruption.
    Ozchess died on the 7/4/2013- killed by Gatekeepers



  11. | #11
    Tin Cup Champ 2004 Just2Good's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firegoat7 View Post
    Chess.com is simply the worst.

    If you are an Australian chess player don't play there. Play anywhere else but not on Chess.com.
    I don't play there, but you neglect to mention, ICC had more than it's fair share of problems as well.
    .
    "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing."

    ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

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