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    An important part of the study of reverse engineering reality, and one little spoken about: The History and agenda of compulsory mass schooling.

    [YOUTUBE]fBNh543A81U&NR=1[/YOUTUBE]

    Also many revealing videos on youtube regarding the thoughts of twice best teacher of New York , John Taylor Gatto . Author of Weapons of 'Mass Instruction', as well as Charlotte Iserbyt who served as Senior Policy Advisor in the Office of Educational Research and Improvement (OERI), U.S. Department of Education. Author of 'Dumbing Down America'.


    "I find it somewhat curious that during schooling , little mention is given to the history of schooling itself ......i wonder why ?" Axiom

    (part of the answer to this is in the video above !)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Axiom View Post
    An important part of the study of reverse engineering reality, and one little spoken about: The History and agenda of compulsory mass schooling.

    Also many revealing videos on youtube regarding the thoughts of twice best teacher of New York , John Taylor Gatto . Author of Weapons of 'Mass Instruction', as well as Charlotte Iserbyt who served as Senior Policy Advisor in the Office of Educational Research and Improvement (OERI), U.S. Department of Education. Author of 'Dumbing Down America'.


    "I find it somewhat curious that during schooling , little mention is given to the history of schooling itself ......i wonder why ?" Axiom

    (part of the answer to this is in the video above !)
    Well Ax, even if it is the case that the education offered by the public schooling system is less than the best, you have failed to acknowledge that individuals can further their own education by attending post secondary education, or by individualized self study. That is especially so in today's day and age.

    Best Regards,

    AO
    .
    "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing."

    ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrogant-One View Post
    Well Ax, even if it is the case that the education offered by the public schooling system is less than the best, you have failed to acknowledge that individuals can further their own education by attending post secondary education, or by individualized self study. That is especially so in today's day and age.

    Best Regards,

    AO
    Unfortunately most of the damage is done in those very formative years . Hard wiring the brain to be averse to the joys of real learning.

    Again i highly reccommend the works of the above 2 authors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Axiom View Post
    Unfortunately most of the damage is done in those very formative years .
    Please explain what you mean by damage? Most people have attended schooling (either private or public) from year 1 to year 12, and most of them are undamaged.
    .
    "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing."

    ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrogant-One View Post
    Please explain what you mean by damage? Most people have attended schooling (either private or public) from year 1 to year 12, and most of them are undamaged.
    I will allow others to shed light on the answer to your question.

    It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. (Albert Einstein)

    We are students of words: we are shut up in a schools and colleges and recitation-rooms for ten or fifteen years, and come out at last with a bag of wind, a memory of words, and do not know a thing.
    -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

    "I never let my schooling get in the way of my education."
    -- Mark Twain (1835-1910)

    Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school. ~Albert Einstein

    What we want is to see the child in pursuit of knowledge, and not knowledge in pursuit of the child. ~George Bernard Shaw

    In large states public education will always be mediocre, for the same reason that in large kitchens the cooking is usually bad. ~Friedrich Nietzsche

    My education was interrupted only by my schooling ~Winston Churchill

    BERTRAND RUSSEL "Men are born ignorant, not stupid. They are made stupid by education." "What's the difference between a bright, inquisitive five-year-old, and a dull, stupid nineteen-year-old? Fourteen years of the British educational system."

    ROBERT FROST- "By working faithfully eight hours a day, you may get to be a boss and work twelve hours a day."

    GEORGE BERNARD SHAW (sent in by Paige; thanks!)- There is, on the whole, nothing on Earth intended for innocent people so horrible as a school.

    H. L. MENCKEN - "The most dangerous man, to any government, is the man who is able to think things out for himself... Almost inevitably, he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane and intolerable

    JOHN TAYLOR GATTO - "The strongest meshes of the school net are invisible. Constant bidding for a stranger's attention creates a chemistry producing the common characteristics of modern schoolchildren: whining, dishonesty, malice, treachery, cruelty. Unceasing competition for official favor in the dramatic fish bowl of a classroom delivers cowardly children, little people sunk in chronic boredom, little people with no apparent purpose for being alive."

    IVAN ILLICH - "Many students, especially those who are poor, intuitively know what the schools do for them. They school them to confuse process and substance. Once these become blurred, a new logic is assumed: the more treatment there is, the better are the results; or, escalation leads to success. The pupil is thereby "schooled" to confuse teaching with learning, grade advancement with education, a diploma with competence, and fluency with the ability to say something new. His imagination is "schooled" to accept service in place of value. Medical treatment is mistaken for health care, social work for the improvement of community life, police protection for safety, military poise for national security, the rat race for productive work. Health, learning, dignity, independence, and creative endeavor are defined as little more than the performance of the institutions which claim to serve these ends, and their improvement is made to depend on allocating more resources to the management of hospitals, schools, and other agencies in question."

    BOBBY FISCHER - "You don't learn anything in school. It's just a waste of time. You lug around books and all and do homework. They give too much homework. You shouldn't be doing homework. Nobody's interested in it. The teachers are stupid. They shouldn't have any women in there. They don't know how to teach. And they shouldn't make anyone go to school. You don't want to go, you don't go, that's all. It's ridiculous. I don't remember one thing I learned in school. I don't listen to weakies. My two and a half years in Erasmus High I wasted. I didn't like the whole thing. You have to mix with all those stupid kids. The teachers are even stupider than the kids. They talk down to the kids. Half of them are crazy. If they'd have let me, I would have quit before I was sixteen."

    Education is making a person learn against his will, this produces an individual who works in a job he doesn't like. Education teaches dependence, not independence as educators would like to make us believe. It results in stupid workers who can�t look further than what the state, big companies or the so called experts tell them. Nowadays, if you get good grades you are called intelligent, now matter how ignorant, no matter how poor are your critical thinking or creative abilities. Conformity is praised, independence is punished. Education is indoctrination by means of coercion. An educator is a sadist who likes to see how other people suffer when they are exhausted with tons of work, humiliated for questioning his dogmas, and get bad grades because they don't study what he wants. ANON

    "[Schools:] vast factories for the manufacture of robots." - Robert Lindner (1914-1956)

    "[T]he result desired by the state is a wholly different one from that desired by parents, guardians, and pupils." – Lester Frank Ward 1897

    "A child educated only at school is an uneducated child." – George Santayana

    "Drop out of school before your mind rots from exposure to our mundane educational system. Forget about the Senior Prom, go to the library and educate yourself if you've got any guts." - Frank Zappa

    "Education is a subversive activity -- that is the reason so little of it is going on." - J.P.Beckley

    "Education is a weapon whose effects depend on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed." - Joseph Stalin

    "Education rears disciples, imitators, and routinists, not pioneers of new ideas and creative geniuses. The schools are not nurseries of progress and improvement, but conservatories of tradition and unvarying modes of thought." – Ludwig von Mises

    "Far from failing in its intended task, our educational system is in fact succeeding magnificently, because its aim is to keep the American people thoughtless enough to go on supporting the system." – Richard Mitchell, "The Underground Grammarian

    "Freedom requires responsibility. That is why most men dread it." – George Bernard Shaw

    "Growth and mastery come only to those who vigorously self-direct. Initiating, creating, doing, reflecting, freely associating, enjoying privacy—these are precisely what the structures of schooling are set up to prevent, on one pretext or another." – John Taylor Gatto, "The Underground History of American Education"

    "I freed thousands of slaves. I could have freed thousands more if they had known they were slaves." – Harriet Tubman

    "I hated school so intensely. It interfered with my freedom" - Sigrid Undset (Nobel Prize winner)

    "I suppose it is because nearly all children go to school nowadays and have things arranged for them that they seem so forlornly unable to produce their own ideas." – Agatha Christie (Author)

    "Let me control the textbooks, and I will control the state." - Adolf Hitler

    "Men are born ignorant, not stupid. They are made stupid by education" - Bertrand Russell

    "My schooling not only failed to teach me what it professed to be teaching, but prevented me from being educated to an extent which infuriates me when I think of all I might have learned at home by myself." – George Bernard Shaw

    "Nothing enrages me more than when people criticize my criticism of school by telling me that schools are not just places to learn maths and spelling, they are places where children learn a vaguely defined thing called socialization. I know. I think schools generally do an effective and terribly damaging job of teaching children to be infantile, dependent, intellectually dishonest, passive and disrespectful to their own developmental capacities." – Seymour Papert

    "Our schools are, in a sense, factories, in which the raw products (children) are to be shaped and fashioned into products to meet the various demands of life. The specifications for manufacturing come from the demands of twentieth-century civilization, and it is the business of the school to build its pupils according to the specifications laid down." – Ellwood P. Cubberley, Dean of the Stanford University School of Education

    "Our schools have been scientifically designed to prevent over-education from happening. The average American [should be] content with their humble role in life, because they're not tempted to think about any other role." – William T. Harris, U.S. Commissioner of Education, 1889

    "Rulers have always taken care to control the education of the people. They know their power is based almost entirely on the school and they insist on retaining their monopoly. The school is an instrument of domination in the hands of the ruling class." - Anarchy: A Graphic Guide, p. 100

    "School is the advertising agency which makes you believe that you need the society as it is." – Ivan Illich

    "School is the first impression children get of organized society. Like most first impressions it is the lasting one. Life is dull and stupid, only Coke provides relief. And other products, too, of course." – John Taylor Gatto, "The Underground History of American Education"

    "Schools have not necessarily much to do with education... they are mainly institutions of control, where basic habits must be inculcated in the young. Education is quite different and has little place in school." – Winston Churchill

    "Thank goodness I was never sent to school; it would have rubbed off some of the originality." – Beatrix Potter (Author of the Peter Rabbit books)

    "The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. To be your own man is hard business. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." – Rudyard Kipling

    "The mind is not a vessel to be filled, but a fire to be kindled." - Plutarch

    "There are only two places in the world where time takes precedence over the job to be done. School and prison." – William Glasser

    "What is the task of higher education? To make a man into a machine. What are the means employed? He is taught how to suffer being bored." – F W Nietzsche (1889)

    "What luck for rulers that men do not think" - Adolf Hitler

    "Wherever is found what is called a paternal government, there is found state education. It has been discovered that the best way to insure implicit obedience is to commence tyranny in the nursery." – Benjamin Disraeli, British Prime Minister (1874)

    "Who besides a degraded rabble would voluntarily present itself to be graded and classified like meat? No wonder school is compulsory." – John Taylor Gatto, "The Underground History of American Education"

    "To be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing its best, night and day to make you everybody else - means to fight the hardest battle which any human being could fight; and keep fighting." - E. E. Cummings

    Most parents cannot conceive of a totally privatized alternative because they themselves have been indoctrinated by public schooling to believe in its alleged necessity.
    ~The Central Fallacy of Public Schooling, by Daniel Hager

    Real education must ultimately be limited to men who insist on knowing. The rest is mere sheep-herding.
    Ezra Loomis Pound


    Ever wonder why we go to school? Besides getting a so called education. Its not to obvious to most of you stupid fucks but for those who think a little more and deeper you should realize it. Its societies way of turning all the young people into good little robots and factory workers that’s why we sit in desks in rows and go by bell schedules, to get prepared for the real world cause “that’s what its like …” “How dare you think that I and you are part of the same species when we are soooooooo different. you aren’t human you are a robot’ ~Eric Harris, Perpetrator of the Columbine massacre


    There is, in fact, only one solution: the state, the government, the laws must not in any way concern themselves with schooling or education. Public funds must not be used for such purposes. The rearing and instruction of youth must be left entirely to parents and to private associations and institutions.
    Ludwig von Mises
    Last edited by Axiom; 13-02-09 at 05:57 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Axiom View Post
    H. L. MENCKEN - "The most dangerous man, to any government, is the man who is able to think things out for himself... Almost inevitably, he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane and intolerable.
    Now this quote seems interesting. I'd like more information on the subject from this source please.
    .
    "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing."

    ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrogant-One View Post
    Now this quote seems interesting. I'd like more information on the subject from this source please.
    H.L. Mencken on Liberty and Government - Gary Galles - Mises Institute

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    "One cannot be forced to learn , and this is the axiomatic principle at play in mass state compulsory schooling. They do however succeed well in extinguishing the flame of curiosity and the inherent desire to explore the search for meaning and answers . Instead this schooling system teaches one to be bored by learning , and this effect unfortunately lingers on throughout most people's lives, leaving them more obediant,brainwashed and maleable for the agendas of state and government, which is the very reason this model of compulsory schooling was first employed in Prussia , 200 yrs ago." ~ Axiom
    Last edited by Axiom; 13-02-09 at 11:50 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Axiom View Post
    They do however succeed well in extinguishing the flame of curiosity and the inherent desire to explore the search for meaning and answers.
    Not always!

    Case in point - Fleming was well educated, and he discovered penicillin.
    .
    "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing."

    ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrogant-One View Post
    Not always!

    Case in point - Fleming was well educated, and he discovered antibiotics.
    Curiosity and the desire to learn remains as an exception not the rule , and despite schooling not because of it .

    It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. Albert Einstein


    [youtube]iG9CE55wbtY&eurl=http://www.truthmovementaustralia[/youtube]
    Last edited by Axiom; 16-02-09 at 01:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Axiom View Post
    Curiosity and the desire to learn remains as an exception not the rule , and despite schooling not because of it .

    It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. Albert Einstein
    Nice quote Ax! So, what is your proposal - to shut down all of the schools? And who is to babysit/educate all the children?
    .
    "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing."

    ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrogant-One View Post
    Nice quote Ax! So, what is your proposal - to shut down all of the schools? And who is to babysit/educate all the children?
    Did you read those quotes above ?
    Did you watch the video above ?


    There is, in fact, only one solution: the state, the government, the laws must not in any way concern themselves with schooling or education. Public funds must not be used for such purposes. The rearing and instruction of youth must be left entirely to parents and to private associations and institutions. Ludwig von Mises

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    Quote Originally Posted by Axiom View Post
    Did you read those quotes above ?
    Did you watch the video above ?


    There is, in fact, only one solution: the state, the government, the laws must not in any way concern themselves with schooling or education. Public funds must not be used for such purposes. The rearing and instruction of youth must be left entirely to parents and to private associations and institutions. Ludwig von Mises
    I cannot agree, most parents are not educated as well as public school teachers. So any home schooling provided by them would be inferior to the public education system.
    .
    "The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing."

    ~ Isaiah Berlin ~

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrogant-One View Post
    I cannot agree, most parents are not educated as well as public school teachers. So any home schooling provided by them would be inferior to the public education system.
    There is, in fact, only one solution: the state, the government, the laws must not in any way concern themselves with schooling or education. Public funds must not be used for such purposes. The rearing and instruction of youth must be left entirely to parents and to private associations and institutions. Ludwig von Mises

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    The Educational System Was Designed to Keep Us Uneducated and Docile

    News From The West: The Educational System Was Designed to Keep Us Uneducated and Docile

    The Educational System Was Designed to Keep Us Uneducated and Docile

    By Patrick Grimm
    Tuesday, March 3, 2009

    Madcartoon
    It’s no secret that the US educational system doesn’t do a very good job. Like clockwork, studies show that America’s schoolkids lag behind their peers in pretty much every industrialized nation. We hear shocking statistics about the percentage of high-school seniors who can’t find the US on an unmarked map of the world or who don’t know who Abraham Lincoln was.

    Fingers are pointed at various aspects of the schooling system—overcrowded classrooms, lack of funding, teachers who can’t pass competency exams in their fields, etc. But these are just secondary problems. Even if they were cleared up, schools would still suck. Why? Because they were designed to.

    How can I make such a bold statement? How do I know why America’s public school system was designed the way it was (age-segregated, six to eight 50-minute classes in a row announced by Pavlovian bells, emphasis on rote memorization, lorded over by unquestionable authority figures, etc.)? Because the men who designed, funded, and implemented America’s formal educational system in the late 1800s and early 1900s wrote about what they were doing.

    Almost all of these books, articles, and reports are out of print and hard to obtain. Luckily for us, John Taylor Gatto tracked them down. Gatto was voted the New York City Teacher of the Year three times and the New York State Teacher of the Year in 1991. But he became disillusioned with schools—the way they enforce conformity, the way they kill the natural creativity, inquisitiveness, and love of learning that every little child has at the beginning. So he began to dig into terra incognita, the roots of America’s educational system.

    In 1888, the Senate Committee on Education was getting jittery about the localized, non-standardized, non-mandatory form of education that was actually teaching children to read at advanced levels, to comprehend history, and, egads, to think for themselves. The committee’s report stated, “We believe that education is one of the principal causes of discontent of late years manifesting itself among the laboring classes.”

    By the turn of the century, America’s new educrats were pushing a new form of schooling with a new mission (and it wasn’t to teach). The famous philosopher and educator John Dewey wrote in 1897:

    Every teacher should realize he is a social servant set apart for the maintenance of the proper social order and the securing of the right social growth.

    In his 1905 dissertation for Columbia Teachers College, Elwood Cubberly—the future Dean of Education at Stanford—wrote that schools should be factories “in which raw products, children, are to be shaped and formed into finished products…manufactured like nails, and the specifications for manufacturing will come from government and industry.”

    The next year, the Rockefeller Education Board—which funded the creation of numerous public schools—issued a statement which read in part:

    In our dreams…people yield themselves with perfect docility to our molding hands. The present educational conventions [intellectual and character education] fade from our minds, and unhampered by tradition we work our own good will upon a grateful and responsive folk. We shall not try to make these people or any of their children into philosophers or men of learning or men of science. We have not to raise up from among them authors, educators, poets or men of letters. We shall not search for embryo great artists, painters, musicians, nor lawyers, doctors, preachers, politicians, statesmen, of whom we have ample supply. The task we set before ourselves is very simple…we will organize children…and teach them to do in a perfect way the things their fathers and mothers are doing in an imperfect way.

    At the same time, William Torrey Harris, US Commissioner of Education from 1889 to 1906, wrote:

    Ninety-nine [students] out of a hundred are automata, careful to walk in prescribed paths, careful to follow the prescribed custom. This is not an accident but the result of substantial education, which, scientifically defined, is the subsumption of the individual.

    In that same book, The Philosophy of Education, Harris also revealed:

    The great purpose of school can be realized better in dark, airless, ugly places…. It is to master the physical self, to transcend the beauty of nature. School should develop the power to withdraw from the external world.

    Several years later, President Woodrow Wilson would echo these sentiments in a speech to businessmen:

    We want one class to have a liberal education. We want another class, a very much larger class of necessity, to forego the privilege of a liberal education and fit themselves to perform specific difficult manual tasks.

    Writes Gatto: “Another major architect of standardized testing, H.H. Goddard, said in his book Human Efficiency (1920) that government schooling was about ‘the perfect organization of the hive.’”

    While President of Harvard from 1933 to 1953, James Bryant Conant wrote that the change to a forced, rigid, potential-destroying educational system had been demanded by “certain industrialists and the innovative who were altering the nature of the industrial process.”

    In other words, the captains of industry and government explicitly wanted an educational system that would maintain social order by teaching us just enough to get by but not enough so that we could think for ourselves, question the sociopolitical order, or communicate articulately. We were to become good worker-drones, with a razor-thin slice of the population—mainly the children of the captains of industry and government—to rise to the level where they could continue running things.

    This was the openly admitted blueprint for the public schooling system, a blueprint which remains unchanged to this day. Although the true reasons behind it aren’t often publicly expressed, they’re apparently still known within education circles. Clinical psychologist Bruce E. Levine wrote in 2001:

    I once consulted with a teacher of an extremely bright eight-year-old boy labeled with oppositional defiant disorder. I suggested that perhaps the boy didn’t have a disease, but was just bored. His teacher, a pleasant woman, agreed with me. However, she added, “They told us at the state conference that our job is to get them ready for the work world…that the children have to get used to not being stimulated all the time or they will lose their jobs in the real world.”

    John Taylor Gatto’s book, The Underground History of American Education: An Intimate Investigation into the Problem of Modern Schooling (New York: Oxford Village Press, 2001), is the source for all of the above historical quotes. It is a profoundly important, unnerving book, which I recommend most highly. You can order it from Gatto’s Website, which now contains the entire book online for free.

    The final quote above is from page 74 of Bruce E. Levine’s excellent book Commonsense Rebellion: Debunking Psychiatry, Confronting Society (New York: Continuum Publishing Group, 2001).
    ———-

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